Curse

Xenomortis · Mar 23, 2011, 12:34 PM // 12:34

The Foefire is 11 years after the War in Kryta.
I wouldn't expect that ever in Guild Wars.

Dzjudz · Mar 23, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dafad Dhu

The (insert ridiculous merc team here) may farm ectos quicker than a normal HH team, but what actual advantage do they gain in GW?

More money to buy party / alcohol? - Nothing but a cosmetic title.
Easier vanqing - Nothing but a cosmetic title.
Easier GWAMM - Nothing but a cosmetic title.

This is pretty much the stupid old "lolwhocaresaboutPvE" argument. Same could be said for a 100000-100000 holy damage jesus sword that is PvE only: you can kill anything in one hit (special function: can damage Vengeful Aatxes) and clear any area in minutes. What does it matter that you can do this, it's only PvE. In the end, it's all for cosmetic titles and cosmetic rewards. There is no actual advantage to having 1000k over 1k. Ridiculous argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

epic hamburger analogy

Best post in a good while, made even better by being one paragraph, kudos!

Improvavel · Mar 23, 2011, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

All anyone has said is it's seems to be wrong and against Anets policy on content.

Anet policy on content is content is never paid?

Anet policy on content is content never gives an advantage?

This is all a question of opinion on what is content - if you think merc heroes are content like campaigns are content, then all this argument goes away and the only to complain is price. If you don't think it is content then you get all pissed that you need to pay for in game advantages-

TheGizzy · Mar 23, 2011, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

The only people to mention free Mercs seem to be the folks that have already bought them. Perhaps this might be down to the fact you wish you hadn't and are trying your hardest to stop any leveling of the playing field, which would make your bought advantages more "worth it"........ just a thought.

<~~~ mentioned it
<~~~ has not bought the packs
<~~~ will not be buying the packs now or in the future

Not only do I not see that they add any sort of advantage or edge which cannot be duplicated in-game in one form or another, but I do not find what they DO offer (custom appearances of heroes) to be something I consider "fun," or in any way adding to my game experience.

What I do see, and about the only thing I see, is people QQ'ing because a matter of convenience is not being offered to them for free, and/or QQ'ing because other people are willing to pay for a more convenient method of team building.

Is it a bigger pain in the ass to find someone to party up with who will equip themselves and their heroes exactly as you want so you can have that magical imaginary 8 mesmer/necro/rit team that will allow players to mystically roll through elite areas in 15 minutes? Absolutely.

Is it impossible? Nope. The tools are there already... people just don't like the fact that there is a new tool, a more convenient tool, which they are expected to pay for.

I'm unhappy that I can't get an undedicated Kuunvang just by picking up a copy of Factions: Collector's Edition at GameStop or on Steam. I can't find a legitimate copy of it for sale anywhere. So in order to get an undedicated Kuuny, I have to save the gold I earn in-game and try to find someone selling one I can afford. Or I can risk my real world cash on a CD key on Ebay that I have no way of knowing for sure is legit, at a price higher than what I paid for the last fifteen games I've bought.

The fact that I don't like the options open to me is not the same thing as not having the options.

chessyang · Mar 23, 2011, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The Foefire is 11 years after the War in Kryta.
I wouldn't expect that ever in Guild Wars.

yeah i know.

i just smiled

when john told Wartower "a story they(Anet) like to tell somehow" Youtube WarTower It's about 19 mins in. And the key word he said was "like" so it could just be text for all i know some day and not real playable content.

doh! edit FTW. who knows they could make it something like the BMP. Content "we pay for" if we want to see it. Again who knows.

Saint Scarlet · Mar 23, 2011, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Anet policy on content is content is never paid?

Anet policy on content is content never gives an advantage?

This is all a question of opinion on what is content - if you think merc heroes are content like campaigns are content, then all this argument goes away and the only to complain is price. If you don't think it is content then you get all pissed that you need to pay for in game advantages-

To me the games are games and contain content thats linked inherently with the game. Content also applies to anything they add to the game i.e. WiK(storyline/playable content), Fire Imp(purchasable upgrade content).
Things like skill changes are not content but game updates(to keep things from going stale)

This is my opinion, yours may differ. That is the great thing about people we all have our own opinions that interpret things differently(makes for some good discussions).

@TheGizzy - Because we are all different, people think that some things are just handy others think that it's a step too far in the wrong direction. You are entitled to think that way but there are quite a few of us who think otherwise. Again we are not asking for free Merc's we are asking for the situation that has been created to be addressed in some way. Only Anet can make the decisions we are just using our knowledge and ideas to suggest things. We just feel this is an important issue if you do not that is your prerogative.

Urcscumug · Mar 23, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Here's a realistic suggestion for all the people who are not pleased with any change that occurs in GW (including payed-for advantages): take it or leave it. (And shut up.)

You didn't realise that a MMO, unlike other games, changes over time? You still haven't comprehended that it's ANet's game and they can do as they please? Then get a clue.

No, you cannot ask for a refund. You got your money's worth and then some, over all these years. To claim otherwise would be shitty ungratefulness.

Play the game if you still want to. Don't, if you don't. Whining isn't changing anything.

Lensor · Mar 23, 2011, 02:15 PM // 14:15

My 2 cents is that it may be by a small margin, but Merc slots are still on the "wrong" side of the line as long as there is not an in-game option to achieve the same thing.

It does not really matter much in itself (the advantage is after all probably not very big, and only comes into play if you go solo), but the symbolic value should not be underestimated, expecially now that we are entering GW2 marketing phase. I mean, what is the most common retort to people dissing GW's B2P business model saying it just means you have to use the cash shop to stay competetive? You guessed it; "There are microtransactions, but they are COSMETIC or CONVENIENCE only. Apart from the chapters/expansion packs of course." Clear cut and no ifs or buts.

Now, after mercenary heroes, this claim is no longer true. What does this mean for potential customers' will to buy GW2 and fans' zealousness in talking about GW2 to friends? One can only hope that the effect is negligble, although I fear the ripple effects could be noticable. Personally I can say that I would be way more confident marketing GW2 to my friends if ANet had consistently and forever stayed on the no-endgame-gameplay-advantages-in-shop side of the line.

TheGizzy · Mar 23, 2011, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Scarlet

@TheGizzy - Because we are all different, people think that some things are just handy others think that it's a step too far in the wrong direction. You are entitled to think that way but there are quite a few of us who think otherwise. Again we are not asking for free Merc's we are asking for the situation that has been created to be addressed in some way. Only Anet can make the decisions we are just using our knowledge and ideas to suggest things. We just feel this is an important issue if you do not that is your prerogative.

There is a difference between that which is demonstrable and that which is an opinion.

There are many things in life I find unfair. I'm entitled to hold that opinion. I'm even entitled to complain about it. That does not mean that I am actually entitled to the thing I find unfair to become fair by my personal definition.

The world changes constantly based on opinions being expressed and action being taken on the part of those who share an opinion. We do this by voting, by revolution, by initiating change in some small or large way. To have an effect, we need others to agree with us that our ideas about how things should change are right... power in numbers and all that.

As yet, I've not seen one argument, not one, offering any demonstrable reason why this current issue needs some different sort of resolution. Many others agree. If you want to see things change - in this case, see ANet do something about it - you need to convince people there's a problem, that the problem needs to be fixed, and hopefully show a way to fix it.

That is not happening.

The onus is actually on you, and those who hold the same opinion as you, to prove that there is a problem and that the problem needs to be addressed. That's how change is effected.

As yet, you haven't done that, either.

As yet, all the arguments against MH boil down to "I don't like the options available, they owe us other options." As yet, no one has proven an advantage provided by MHs that cannot be duplicated via other means in-game. As yet, no one has offered a compelling reason for ANet to change anything, or for those who are either pro-MH, or neutral-MH to "side" with those who are anti-MH.

Until those things change, nothing else can or will.

I don't have the MH packs, I will never buy the MH packs... in theory, I'm in the perfect position to be swayed to one "side" or the other. I've seen nothing presented that comes even close to swaying me to the "side" you represent. If you want things to change, you have to work to change opinions... and most people need to see a compelling reason, first.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The Foefire is 11 years after the War in Kryta.
I wouldn't expect that ever in Guild Wars.

Is 11 years really all that long in Guild Wars? Isn't EotN like a decade after the events of the first game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

As yet, all the arguments against MH boil down to "I don't like the options available, they owe us other options." As yet, no one has proven an advantage provided by MHs that cannot be duplicated via other means in-game. As yet, no one has offered a compelling reason for ANet to change anything, or for those who are either pro-MH, or neutral-MH to "side" with those who are anti-MH.

Wait....are you saying that you can do 2 hours or under FoW/UW runs with the normal 7 heroes? I haven't seen that yet. From what I hear, that's only possible with the MH.

Let me know if I'm wrong. I'd love to see a screenshot.

Xenomortis · Mar 23, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Is 11 years really all that long in Guild Wars? Isn't EotN like a decade after the events of the first game.

The Searing happens in 1070 AE.
The War in Kryta happens in 1079 AE.

3 campaigns, an expansion and some added content totals 9 years.
The events in Eye of the North occur 8 years after the Searing.

TheGizzy · Mar 23, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Wait....are you saying that you can do 2 hours or under FoW/UW runs with the normal 7 heroes? I haven't seen that yet. From what I hear, that's only possible with the MH.

Let me know if I'm wrong. I'd love to see a screenshot.

I can barely do FoW period, and I've never done the UW.

If it takes you and 7 mesmers to steamroll FoW/UW in under two hours, you can still duplicate that effect by hooking up with other players and/or their heroes and running the builds.

The effect - a fast run of FoW using builds designed for 7 mesmers or whatever - thus CAN be duplicated. The QQ'ing is that it can't be duplicated via the method a few prefer. It CAN be done, they just don't like the paths open to them to do it.

This is actually very similar to the skill packs, which is why I don't understand why THAT isn't griped about as well. The instant I bought the skill packs, every skill in the game became instantly available to me through skill trainers or tomes. I bought it because I did not like the other method of accomplishing attainment of those skills - capping. So I paid for the convenience of an easier method.

You can come up with some ultimate uber build for 8 identical professions on a team... and you can use it where you like... by hooking up with other players interested in doing the same. So it CAN be done.

Some are paying for the convenience of doing it by themselves without having to go through the hassle of finding other people. Some choose to not make the same investment (me included).

It does not change the fact that the end result can be duplicated... it just means people don't like the METHOD by which it can be duplicated, and aren't willing to pay for it to be otherwise.

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

<~~~ mentioned it
<~~~ has not bought the packs
<~~~ will not be buying the packs now or in the future

Not only do I not see that they add any sort of advantage or edge which cannot be duplicated in-game in one form or another, but I do not find what they DO offer (custom appearances of heroes) to be something I consider "fun," or in any way adding to my game experience.

I totally respect that this is the way you feel about it; I'd like to just tell you one cool thing about it that I've found:

It's actually pretty awesome having one of my most favorite alts travelling alongside me now. Sometimes during combat, when I pan the camera around, and see my favorite alt nuking the crap out of something, I take a moment and go "woo!!" like a schoolgirl.

Not only is that favorite alt of mine in my party now, but I got to dress her up in 15k (gogo granite citadel) before I merc'd her, so she's mad stylish too. I only spent 10 bucks on the whole thing, and I think I'm gonna get that 10 bucks worth of fun out of it, for sure.

I don't know much about getting nuts with crazy metagame powerbuilds or whatever... but the fun factor of having a beloved alt in the team is something that I'm enjoying a lot.

Essence Snow · Mar 23, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

GW's model was BUY to PLAY. That was what attracted lots of ppl to GW. It is the reason lots of us love it.

The small microtransactions have moved GW away from that model, let's say by an inch. The MH have moved it even further from that model, but now by a foot. Will the next micotransaction move it another foot or possibly a yard?

B2P (buy to play) was one of the greastest aspects of GW. If I wanted to play a P2P (pay to play) game I probably would not have chosen GW. The MH are simply a sign of GW changing its philosophy from B2P to a hybrid B2PP2SC (buy to play...pay to stay competitive). In the future who knows it might change its model a full on P2P. It affects all GW players, which is why it's such an issue.

If you don't mind GW changing to a P2P model...that's fine...that works for you. It however does not sit well with me. I don't want to purchase GW2 and then 2 years later find out that I have to pay to play. Then when I ask for a reason, they say "Well we've been moving towards it for years....didn't you notice? No one ever complained so we assumed the community was okay by it." or simply just not reply, which seems to be the usual.

The MH in my mind are just the breaking point to where I have to say something. I feel that I need to voice my concern now b4 it's too late. As a passenger should I not tell the driver as soon as they take a wrong turn or should I wait until they go 100 miles in the wrong direction?

Daesu · Mar 23, 2011, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Wait....are you saying that you can do 2 hours or under FoW/UW runs with the normal 7 heroes? I haven't seen that yet. From what I hear, that's only possible with the MH.

Let me know if I'm wrong. I'd love to see a screenshot.

You heard wrong. There is no advantage for using MH, how can there be? If there is then ANet would not put it in their store.

Too many false claims and speculations on this thread without actual proofs.

Ghull Ka · Mar 23, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

GW's model was BUY to PLAY. That was what attracted lots of ppl to GW. It is the reason lots of us love it.

The small microtransactions have moved GW away from that model, let's say by an inch. The MH have moved it even further from that model, but now by a foot. Will the next micotransaction move it another foot or possibly a yard?

B2P (buy to play) was one of the greastest aspects of GW. If I wanted to play a P2P (pay to play) game I probably would not have chosen GW. The MH are simply a sign of GW changing its philosophy from B2P to a hybrid B2PP2SC (buy to play...pay to stay competitive).

Didn't it shift to "B2PP2SC" when Guild Wars: Factions was released?

Prophecies-only accounts weren't competitive anymore, you had to buy a $40 box to stay competitive.

Also, I am not convinced that MH's -- either just 1x or a wide array of them -- are required to "stay competitive".

Ellix Cantero · Mar 23, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

While I haven't even played the game since the update, I'll still add my two cents. I think the ability to have more of one profession than is offered by the default hero lineup is pretty much a vanity/quirk choice of players, not something that should make the game easier for people who choose to go that route.

If the game is made easier by having more than the default available number of one profession in a group, then that says to me that there is a balance issue that needs to be addressed by the live team.

I think selling the mercenary heroes was the right thing to do by ANET. They have, IMO, the second best MMO out there, and while that 'other' company is raking in Scrooge McDuck cash every month, ANET is probably getting a little strapped for cash as they work to make GW2 the best it can be.

Karate Jesus · Mar 23, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You heard wrong. There is no advantage for using MH, how can there be? If there is then ANet would not put it in their store.

Too many false claims and speculations on this thread without actual proofs.

There's a screenshot in this thread of just that happening.....and I know you've seen it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGizzy

If it takes you and 7 mesmers to steamroll FoW/UW in under two hours, you can still duplicate that effect by hooking up with other players and/or their heroes and running the builds.

Well, first of all, it's not 7 mesmers. Second of all, are you actually suggesting that just because a team or two players may be able to do it faster, it's not an advantage?

If you start from a level playing field (2 players, each with 7 heroes), and then add MH to the picture, one of those players can suddenly clear elite areas by himself in a respectable amount of time.

How is that not a paid "advantage". One of them can do something the other can't.....for a price....

TheGizzy · Mar 23, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

I don't know much about getting nuts with crazy metagame powerbuilds or whatever... but the fun factor of having a beloved alt in the team is something that I'm enjoying a lot.

I can see where that would be an attraction for a lot of players... I don't have alts that I play, though. I have a bunch of storage toons that are loaded up with stuff. I did bring a few of them up to lvl5 so I could do the Canthan New Year quests with them, but other than one I was going to use as a Survivor (pre-title change) they've not gotten any other play time. The Survivor is now storage as well.

But I could see where if I were going to start playing another profession or something, I would possibly want my much-loved main toon along for the ride. Just probably not enough to be willing to pay for it. *chuckling*

My friend Missy bought the packs. She turned one of her toons (that I play "with" frequently) into an MH and brought it along when we were adventuring on one of her other toons. It was a good giggle and a bit mind-bending to see "her" twice in the same party under different names. I kept wanting to open trade with the wrong one. LOL

Saint Scarlet · Mar 23, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I don't set out to change people's opinions, they are their own. All i do is state things as i see them and people can then take from that what they wish. Tbh if you cannot see the advantage from having them then that's ok, either you will or you won't. This is a discussion on the subject not a way to persuade people to join sides, jeez can people not talk these days without someone try to push ideas on to others.